Saturday Morning Oy - July 29, 2017

Cidu Bill on Jul 29th 2017

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Kilby:

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Filed in Barney & Clyde, Bill Bickel, Bizarro, Reality Check, comic strips, comics, humor, oy | 37 responses so far

37 Responses to “Saturday Morning Oy - July 29, 2017”

  1. Kamino Neko Jul 29th 2017 at 12:36 am 1

    The Barney & Clyde in the Oy set for the 15th.

  2. Cidu Bill Jul 29th 2017 at 12:40 am 2

    Hm…

    Okay, well, I’ve been doing that a lot less this year than last year.

  3. Mitch4 Jul 29th 2017 at 01:10 am 3

    All good tho! (Even the floppy repeat)

  4. Olivier Jul 29th 2017 at 03:51 am 4

    The fashion police one reminded me of this comic : http://publikart.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/newyork1979.jpg where the superhero, known as “le tisseur”(= the spinner) helps people with fashion. Extract in French : http://www.lefashionpost.com/app/media/231146?resize=960x%3E (last panel says “Quick, someone is starting a color load at more than 60°C ; I must intervene immediately”). It’s very silly : I love it.

  5. Scott Jul 29th 2017 at 01:45 pm 5

    Still funny, but the third one gave me a case of deja flu.

  6. Christine Jul 29th 2017 at 02:41 pm 6

    As a Canadian, I appreciate the re-run, because this time around I got the joke. No clue what prompted it, just took me a bit longer to figure it out.

  7. chakolate Jul 29th 2017 at 04:04 pm 7

    I get the supposed joke in the third one, what I don’t get was why Pillsbury was against the promotion.

    It’s right along the same lines as two people in bathtubs admiring the sunset, isn’t it? Sex sells.

  8. Kilby Jul 29th 2017 at 04:58 pm 8

    @ Christine (6) - As Kamino Neko mentioned (@1) in the earlier thread, the joke is US-centric (because the letter “Z” is pronounced “zed” in Britain). What I don’t know is how that letter is pronounced in Canada. I remember that this was a clue in one of the BBC’s “Poirot” mysteries, but I’m not sure which way it went, and I don’t remember the title, so it’s pretty hard to double check the DVD at the moment.

  9. Kilby Jul 29th 2017 at 04:59 pm 9

    P.S. I really like Scott’s comment @5.

  10. Christine Jul 29th 2017 at 11:21 pm 10

    @Kilby We also pronounce it zed. Despite heavy exposure to American media (somehow my 5-year-old has picked up singing the alphabet song such that the last line rhymes, I don’t know how), I have a very hard time with American pronunciations. I watched Forrest Gump, and immediately afterwards turned to my husband & made a remark about Lieutenant Dan. I’ve just heard him referred to throughout the film (and never seen his rank spelled out), but, despite that, I somehow fail to pronounce lieutenant phonetically. There comes a point (that one. Or perhaps one before it) where I suspect that I’ve trained my brain to do it just to be contrary.

  11. Kamino Neko Jul 29th 2017 at 11:29 pm 11

    Kilby - ‘Zed’ is the Commonwealth pronunciation in general.

    For TV usage, Stargate Atlantis delighted me, when Rodney McKay (a Canadian scientist with the SG team) consistently pronounced ZPM (Zero Point Module) as Zed Pee Em…I kept waiting for him to address one of the lieutenants.

  12. Kilby Jul 30th 2017 at 02:26 am 12

    @ Kamino Neko (11) - That’s what I expected(*), but given that 90% of Canadians supposedly live within 100 km of the US border, I was wondering whether that might have influenced it a bit.

    P.S. @ Christine (10) - Perhaps the contaminating influence on your 5-year old came from Sesame Street? Or some electronic gizmo? (We have had at least two preschool devices that speak letters, and one of them even has the alphabet song on it.)

    P.P.S. (*) - My memory of the Poirot episode @8 was that the woman who was trying to pass as an American had exposed her Canadian heritage by saying “ay to zed”.

  13. mitch4 Jul 30th 2017 at 09:02 am 13

    ‘Zed’ has some utility, as ‘zee’ is ready to confuse with others in the ‘-ee’ series, particularly ’see’ (c).

    ‘Leftenant’ has the disadvantage of hiding the French origins of the “place holder”.

  14. narmitaj Jul 30th 2017 at 07:19 pm 14

    My favourite Poirot pronunciation joke is the parrot one:

    Doorbuzzer buzzes, and Poirot opens it to a delivery man with a caged bird.

    Delivery man: Morning sir. I’ve got a parrot for Mister Poy-rot

    Poirot: No, no, no… “Pwa-Roe” - it is pronounced “Pwa-ROE”

    Delivery man: I beg your pardon, guv’nor. I’ve got a pwa-roe for Mister Poy-rot

    See it here (37 secs clip): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQRMFpbmgt0

  15. Mark in Boston Jul 30th 2017 at 09:54 pm 15

    In the 19th century in America, the letter z was pronounced “izzard”.

    It may have been a regional thing, but it appears in Poe.

  16. Christine Jul 31st 2017 at 08:25 am 16

    @Kilby - see, that’s the odd thing. Not only do we not have a TV, we don’t have a streaming service, and the DVDs that the library has of Sesame Street don’t really include entire episodes. I have no memory of the alphabet song coming up. I’m suspecting she got it at school (don’t know if it was from one of the other students, or the teacher, who I already have other issues with. Fortunately she has a different teacher for SK, which wasn’t a given in our board.) And the fact that “ay to zed” was a clue is awesome, given that Tanya Huff had “ay to zee” be a clue. I can’t tell by looking at the wikipedia timeline which came first though.

    @mitch4 Apparently the American pronunciation is older. But, oddly enough, the English pronunciation had already shifted before the colonies were settled, so the American pronunciation is a shift back. (Why yes, if I read a historical novel that talks about someone “oddly” pronouncing lieutenant, I will look up the history of the pronunciation to see if it’s ok to be annoyed.) Apparently the Commonwealth pronunciation (possibly) comes from a Russian influence, in which case it would have started as lev-tenant, and the modern lef-tenant is an evolution from that.

  17. Kilby Jul 31st 2017 at 09:43 am 17

    @ Christine (16) - I’m still thinking about which Poirot episode the “A-2-Z” clue was in. I think it might be in the last set of DVD’s, which I’ve only watched once so far.

    P.S. @ narmitaj (14) - That is indeed one of the best little “aside” jokes in the entire Poirot series.

  18. Cidu Bill Jul 31st 2017 at 02:19 pm 18

    I was listening to Camelot for about 50 years before it occurred to me that, as an English king, AND ALWAYS PLAYED BY A BRITISH ACTOR, Arthur should have been singing “You told me you had taught me everything from A to Zed” (rather than “Zee”)

    And it only occurred to me after I heard somebody sing “zed.”

    I wonder why they made the decision to Americanize that — and how odd the dictate must have seemed to the actor.

  19. Dave in Boston Jul 31st 2017 at 06:13 pm 19

    The English pronunciation of “lieutenant”, or something like it, is obligatory once you consider that referring to officers as “loo tenants” would be prejudicial to discipline in the ranks.

    IME, the thing most likely to trip up Canadians trying to pass as Americans (or vice versa) is technical terms like “zed axis”.

  20. Mark in Boston Jul 31st 2017 at 11:00 pm 20

    Swedish software developers speak English so well that you don’t notice they are Swedish — until they tell you they write programs in Yava and Yavascript.

  21. Kilby Jul 31st 2017 at 11:48 pm 21

    @ Bill (18) - If the person who had been so informed wasn’t Arthur, but instead one of his stablehands (ideally one named “Ned”), then the line might still have rhymed with the modern British pronunciation of the letter. However, a cursory glance does not prove that the letter Z existed (or was commonly used) in the Arthurian era. There are in fact a number of theories as to which language the original Arthur may have spoken, but it certainly wasn’t (modern) English.

  22. James Pollock Aug 1st 2017 at 01:11 am 22

    “There are in fact a number of theories as to which language the original Arthur may have spoken, but it certainly wasn’t (modern) English.”

    Isn’t Arthur a fictional character? I believe the earliest written account of Arthur was in French, was it not?

  23. Meryl A Aug 1st 2017 at 01:37 am 23

    A reenacting friend just gave me an older issue of a British magazine on history (I forgot the name and am too lazy to go up and find it right now - I know that it is not BBC Magazine - so I will post the name tomorrow) as it had 2 articles on needlework in earlier periods. I flipped through it last night just to see what was in it and there was an article on the real Arthur.

  24. Meryl A Aug 1st 2017 at 01:47 am 24

    I am interested in what British people call things to work on Anne, my 18th century alter ego. While not all words today as they were then and language was further influenced by where one was from (in my case, Long Island of the period with either parents or grandparents who came from the mother country - still working on which is the case, or if it is maternal grandparents, mom born here, and father came here - at least my grandfather came from England so I can make reference to stories of London he told me as a girl.)

    Our unit sometimes has a meeting at which the program is a discussion on speaking in period. There is also a book “How to Speak 18th Century English” (with CD) from Colonial Williamsburg based on what they teach their staff.

    Then again, having been raised here in the colony of New York, I can throw a bit of that Dutch accent and words into it as I would have grown up hearing it, despite my “mama” (mahmah) telling me to speak proper English.

  25. mitch4 Aug 1st 2017 at 02:45 am 25

    Cornish

  26. Olivier Aug 1st 2017 at 04:22 am 26

    I don’t know if French influenced English or if it’s the other way round, but the letter Z is called “zed” in French. “Zed comme Zorro”

  27. Kilby Aug 1st 2017 at 05:02 am 27

    @ Olivier (26) - Both pronunciations are most probably related to the Greek “zeta”.

    P.S. Arthur was certainly fictionalized, but there is some evidence that portions of the story were based on a real person, although in all likelihood not a “king”. The French version overlaid and contaminated a lot of the material, but some of the names trace back to a “British” (Cornish, Welsh, etc.) original, which text researchers like to sift out (just like they do with the bible).

  28. Brian in STL Aug 1st 2017 at 01:59 pm 28

    How do Canadians pronounce “clerk”. I have a vague recall from a “Great White North” sketch that it’s “clark” in the British manner, but that’s been a long time gone.

  29. Cidu Bill Aug 1st 2017 at 03:20 pm 29

    Regardless of whether Arthur actually lived, or in what century he lived, it’s accepted that for musical comedy purposes, everybody speaks 20th/21st century English. Otherwise, “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum” would have to be performed in Latin (”Cras tragoedia, comoedia hac nocte!”)

    And if everything Arthur says and sings in Camelot is in modern-day English, he should be saying “zed.”

  30. James Pollock Aug 1st 2017 at 05:08 pm 30

    “Otherwise, “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum” would have to be performed in Latin”

    Aren’t a lot of musicals sung in Latin? er, Italian?

  31. Cidu Bill Aug 1st 2017 at 05:26 pm 31

    James, are you referring to opera, which has its own set of rules?

  32. Meryl A Aug 2nd 2017 at 12:42 am 32

    The magazine I mentioned is “Minerva”. It wast the January/February 2017 issue which he gave me and has the article about the “real” King Arthur.

    I was actually surprised it was this recent an issue as one of the needlework exhibitions was on for some time and ended early in January - I would have thought they would have written about it while one could still go see it - or at least see the featured pieces online (as I had done).

  33. Kilby Aug 2nd 2017 at 02:58 am 33

    @ Bill (29) - If I’m willing to suspend my disbelief and accept that the Once and Future King speaks a completely different language from another era, I don’t think I have to restrict things to the language that’s actually found on the island right now. It also doesn’t matter what nationality the songwriter had, the supposed “proper” pronunciation just doesn’t rhyme in the line.

  34. Meryl A Aug 9th 2017 at 02:03 am 34

    It is not that everyone speaks English, it is that all is “magically” be translated for us - sort of like a babelfish in Douglas Adams’ Hitchhikers Guide series.

  35. James Pollock Aug 9th 2017 at 02:53 am 35

    “It is not that everyone speaks English, it is that all is “magically” be translated for us”

    One fan theory goes a step beyond this, for Star Wars… not only is (most of) the language translated to English for us, but the alien creatures who lived in a galaxy far, far away have been magically altered to look like humans, instead of the insect-like figures they actually are. (That’s why there’s hardly any females, and “drone wars” was mistranslated, and why Mos Eisley is a wretched hive, and some other details I’m forgetting.

  36. Cidu Bill Aug 9th 2017 at 03:23 am 36

    Kilby (33), the song works perfectly well with “zed” — and I have to assume British audiences, hearing “zee,” are thinking “what the bloody hell??” (because that’s how all British people actually talk)

  37. Kilby Aug 9th 2017 at 03:44 am 37

    @ Bill - sure, you could replace that one syllable with any other single syllable, and the cadence will still scan, but I was talking about the internal rhyme within the line, with “me”.

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