Comics I Don’t Understand

PH.D. Training

Cidu Bill on Feb 22nd 2012

Filed in Bill Bickel, CIDU, comic strips, comics, humor, phdcomics | 39 responses so far

39 Responses to “PH.D. Training”

Winter Wallaby Feb 21st 2012 at 11:28 pm 1

Some jobs regularly ask puzzles during the interview. The problem with this is that there are a somewhat limited number of good puzzle questions that you can ask during an interview, and someone can prepare ahead of time for them by just searching online. Particularly if the company gives the same puzzle to all its interviewees.
RyanE Feb 21st 2012 at 11:28 pm 2

This just is the nadir of complicated interview questions, the only way to know the right answer to them is to know it beforehand by reading about them on the internet.

Maybe PHD training is just surfing the Internet?
James Schend Feb 21st 2012 at 11:30 pm 3

The problem with this comic is that the point is to have the interviewee work-through the question, not just spit out a “correct” answer. Although maybe that’s part of the joke. I don’t know.
Top Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:08 am 4

I think the CIDU part (at least for me), is why he used the phrase “Ph.D. training.” I notice the comic website is phdcomics.com, so perhaps that has something to do with it, but that’s such a meaningless phrase. What the heck would “Ph.D. training” be?

It reminds of a degree joke. A B.S. you know. An M.S. means “More of the Same.” And a “Ph.D.” means “Piled Higher and Deeper.” So perhaps the interviewee’s in-joke is that the BS skills needed to get a PhD helped him with the interview? That’s a stretch.
Dave Van Domelen Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:12 am 5

Ph.D. training IS largely learning to look things up, but he’s trying to make it sound more important. And since they were just grabbing their final test from the internet to sound more important, there is balance.

(Also, the “riddle” is a concatenation of several SAT-style logic questions.)
furrykef Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:36 am 6

James Schend — yeah, it’s part of the joke. Although the point of the exercise is to present a real riddle, many companies don’t bother and use a stock one that everybody already knows the answer to. Being presented with one of these is a sign you’re signing up for a lousy company or at least a company with a lousy interview process.

It’s the same sort of business logic that causes employees or potential hires to take personality tests where honest answers will kill you no matter how good an employee you might actually be. I’ll never understand such things.
Kamino Neko Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:55 am 7

Top - the comic is actually titled ‘Piled Higher and Deeper’.
Arthur Feb 22nd 2012 at 03:01 am 8

Meanwhile, here’s an interview problem strip that I did like:
http://www.bugbash.net/comic/4.html
Dave in Boston Feb 22nd 2012 at 03:38 am 9

James Schend: generally interview questions of this type are not ones you can work through. They are generally gotchas with a trick answer that (in general) you have to have seen before. As furrykef points out they’re chiefly useful for identifying companies you don’t want to work for.
jjmcgaffey Feb 22nd 2012 at 04:33 am 10

The comic is all about grad students - this is an old strip, from when this guy was looking for a job. I’m not sure what happened, but he seems to spend all his time hanging around the campus now - got a stipend as a TA or something, I think.

The point being that the whole comic is about PH.Ds and PH.D students. And yes, I think the joke is that being a PH.D student involves a lot of Internet surfing, plus a good memory for trivia.
Kilby Feb 22nd 2012 at 05:02 am 11

…this is an old strip…

Indeed - it’s #993, from 21 March 2008 (That makes three retro-submissions from 2008 in recent weeks. Luckily, phdcomics.com has an archive that is much easier to search through than Sinfest.)
Woodrowfan Feb 22nd 2012 at 08:43 am 12

he was offered a job in industry but refused it (literally running away) and is now employed as a Post-Doc by his old professor.

The question is a mishmash of some old, now hackneyed logic questions. The last part is from how you can get 2 chickens (or is it 3?) and a fox over a river in a rowboat when you can only carry two at a time, and if the fox is left alone with a chicken it’ll eat the chicken.
Powers Feb 22nd 2012 at 08:51 am 13

Dave @5: There are no logic questions on the SAT.
Kamino Neko Feb 22nd 2012 at 09:47 am 14

It’s 3 chickens, Woodrowfan - 2 chickens makes the problem trivial.
Kilby Feb 22nd 2012 at 10:16 am 15

Even with three chickens and one fox, it doesn’t seem all that hard:
- Take Chicken + Fox over (leaving only the Chicken upon arriving)
- Return with Fox (leave Fox on first shore, load the two chickens)
- Take remaining 2 Chickens over (leave both there)
- Return empty, get Fox, take Fox over. Done.
Perhaps there are other (additional) conditions, or a limited number of trips?
Winter Wallaby Feb 22nd 2012 at 10:21 am 16

furrykef@6: +1. I find it completely baffling that anyone would think that an honesty test would measure anything useful.
mitch4 Feb 22nd 2012 at 10:25 am 17

“Which would you consider the greater U.S. President, Washington or Lincoln?”

Yes, there is supposed to be a personality correlate to your answer.
Elyrest Feb 22nd 2012 at 11:09 am 18

“Which would you consider the greater U.S. President, Washington or Lincoln?”

Well, it makes a difference if you are talking about coins or dollar bills.
JHGRedekop Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:01 pm 19

The original fox/chicken puzzle was actually fox/chicken/grain, where you can only take one at a time across the river. you can’t leave the fox with the chicken, and you can’t leave the chicken with the grain, but you can leave the fox with the grain without trouble.

So it’s:

Fox, Grain –Chicken–> Nothing
Fox, Grain Chicken
Fox Grain
Chicken Fox, Grain
Scott Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:40 pm 20

There are some people who like to ask candidates arcane puzzles especially about stuff they know very well. I guess it is to see people flounder and to feel superior. At Bell Labs these kind of questions were forbidden.
I suspect that the interviewers do not have Ph.Ds s and the guy is snowing them. I got mine when it was still the ArpaNet, so maybe it isn’t good by today’s standards.
Ian Osmond Feb 22nd 2012 at 01:53 pm 21

Arthur: the problem with the “three light switches” problem is that it will soon be a “Geezer” thing. The solution depends on the secondary property of lights that they generate a LOT of heat, and so it doesn’t work with CFLs. In order to make the problem work, you need to specify “incandescent” lights, and it’s not really fair to expect kids who are growing up without them to really grok how they work.
Mike Feb 22nd 2012 at 02:28 pm 22

As a Ph.D who has been in such interviews, I think the joke is that many people have no idea what getting a Ph.D involves or what skills it might involve, and so they would totally believe that solving riddles like this in the blink of an eye goes with the Ph.D. The guy is BSing the interviewers, but it’s morally acceptable because they gave him such a stupid question.
Mark in Boston Feb 22nd 2012 at 06:21 pm 23

“Which would you consider the greater U.S. President, Washington or Lincoln?”

I know how any white Southerner would answer that question! Followed by a lecture on the War of Northern Agression.
Seth Finkelstein Feb 22nd 2012 at 11:01 pm 24

What happens if one answers “Presidential greatness isn’t a strict monotonic ordering”?
Kilby Feb 23rd 2012 at 12:20 am 25

@ Ian Osmond (21) - Presumably it is eminently fair to expect people who read comics (but not Heinlein) to understand what the word “grok” means?
Elyrest Feb 23rd 2012 at 08:25 am 26

Kilby - I’ve never read Heinlein, but I’m very familiar with grok. I’m married to someone who did though so I might not count - I wonder how far it has gotten into regular usage?
furrykef Feb 23rd 2012 at 09:45 am 27

“Grok” has been hacker slang — that’s hackers as in a certain kind of computer geek, not as in the people who try to break into other people’s computers — for decades now. Probably the same for SF fans too. Occasionally it rubs off on other types of geeks as well.
Matthew Feb 23rd 2012 at 11:41 am 28

As far as I could tell, Ph.D. training was much like a kind of hazing & serfdom. What one learned as a Ph.D. was to obey one’s advisors, network furiously with anyone who can help one get a job, and write a dissertation, which we could also call something that, by the time you finish it, you despise.

I know no Ph.D. who could answer such a logic question unless he/she specialized in that kind of study, logic questions.
Lola Feb 23rd 2012 at 12:34 pm 29

I’m not all “that” geeky and I’ve read some Heinlein, but my first encounter with Grok was from the movie “A Clockwork Orange”.
Winter Wallaby Feb 23rd 2012 at 08:32 pm 30

mitch4:

“Which would you consider the greater U.S. President, Washington or Lincoln?”
Yes, there is supposed to be a personality correlate to your answer.

Lincoln. So don’t keep us in suspense. What’s the personality correlate?
mitch4 Feb 23rd 2012 at 08:47 pm 31

Oh gosh, I wouldn’t know! I’m not an insider or test administrator, I just was a patient / client / subject and noted that item.

I can speculate, though. Washington was (1) father of his country, (2) cannot tell a lie. So: paternalism, following the rules, straitlaced, pompous but trustworthy. Lincoln was (1) the great liberator, (2) a depressive. So: autonomy, creativity, principled but demanding.
Elyrest Feb 23rd 2012 at 08:53 pm 32

I still think it’s a trick question and it has to do with money.
Mark in Boston Feb 24th 2012 at 01:20 am 33

Interviewer: “You have a three quart container and a five quart container. Go down to the river and bring back exactly four quarts of water.”

Me: “Here are your containers, both full. You have four quarts for today and you won’t have to send me down tomorrow.”
Winter Wallaby Feb 24th 2012 at 11:18 am 34

mitch4 #31: When I was in grad school, I had a roomate who had to practice administering an “IQ” test, and I was his guinea pig. One question I particularly remember was “Why should you pay your taxes?” My answer was “Because otherwise the government will put you in jail.” Since the test administrator was my roomate, I could ask him after the test what the deal with that question was, and it turns out that I got it wrong. The correct answer was “Because it pays for valuable government services”!
Matthew Feb 24th 2012 at 02:51 pm 35

Wallaby (#34), your roommate’s test considered a part of intelligence to be the ability to see beyond one’s own interests to the interests of the community. This is reasonable.

I would hope, however, that the question wasn’t phrased so baldly. After all, during times of war or great armament expenditure, then it is in the interest of the community not to pay taxes. A better phrasing might be “What is the benefit of each of us paying taxes?”
Mark in Boston Feb 24th 2012 at 03:29 pm 36

Winter Wallaby #34 & Matthew #35:

Several philosophers have identified stages of development of morality, always going something like this:

Stage 1: Motivated by fear of punishment (don’t pay taxes -> go to jail)
Stage 2: Motivated by self-interest (stay out of jail)
Stage 3: Conventional morality: Motivated by social norms and conformity (everybody else pays taxes)
Stage 4: Conventional morality: Motivated by authority and respect for the social order (law says to pay taxes)
Stage 5: A rare stage only achieved by elite philosophers: Motivated by a deep understanding of the social contract (we all benefit when we all pay taxes)
Stage 6: An even more rare stage only achieved by the elite among the elite, but achieved early by the categorizing philosopher: Motivated by deep understanding of universal ethical principles
Stage 7: A stage so rarified that fewer than a dozen have ever achieved it, notably including the philosopher writing the list: Motivated by a deep understanding of Man’s place in the Cosmos and the philosopher’s transcendence of normal mankind (I alone have the intelligence and wisdom to decide how much I will pay in taxes)
Winter Wallaby Feb 24th 2012 at 03:59 pm 37

Mark in Boston #36: Surely there’s a stage 8 that involves a deep awareness and knowledge of the banking laws of the Cayman Islands?
David A. Rooney Feb 24th 2012 at 08:23 pm 38

Mark @33 - Best answer to that riddle I’ve ever heard!

Winter @37 - that’s a modified version of stage 2 - “Motivated by self-interest, I cheat and hide my efforts from the authorities so I don’t go to jail”.
David A. Rooney Feb 24th 2012 at 08:30 pm 39

Ian @21 - it still works as long as the light bulbs produce heat when left on for a short period of time and you can touch them. I’ve never heard of this riddle until I read it here, but it only took me about a minute to solve it. Just turn on two of the switches for about 5 minutes, then turn off one of those and go in the other room. The lit bulb is run by the switch you left on, and whichever unlit bulb is still hot is controlled by the switch you flipped on and off. The cold bulb is controlled by the switch that was never touched.