http://www.dilbert.com/2010-06-09/

Someone (possibly me) is being incredibly obtuse. In my own defence, may I ask you to identify who this all-powerful right-wing entity, cabal or individual is with the capability to “label” entities with a pejorative term – and making it stick? I mean, you and Powers agree with DonBoy’s assertion (without evidence) that, “the right-wing decided…”. Now making decisions is a pretty high-order capability. It requires [at the least] someone with a brain capable of making decisions – however mean they may be. Who is this Dr. [Right-wing] Nasty? The world wonders?

As far as strawman arguments are concerned, you and I have been here before. For example, you should’ve known that Power’s comment in line 54 is clearly a strawman. DonBoy, whom I quoted correctly, used the term “label” in his assertion. It was I that used the term “coined”. So Powers argument is spurious – a strawman.

I was initially interested in DonBoy’s assertion because, as I’ve noted before, I like words (and their history). As I have been out of the country for a long time, I was interested in his assertion regarding how the term Mainstream Media – and thus the term MSM – came about (as I didn’t experience it directly).

As you should know from my entries, I found his assertion faulty as the term Mainstream Media already existed before Powers interesting link indicated one of the MSM members (Fox News) decided to change its business model to take advantage of a gap in the market. Now that gap could not exist if the other MSM members were addressing the news needs of a significant portion of the American population (see my line 47).

But then, you’d know all this if you’d read my entries. Powers claims he did, which may explain why he’s resorting to strawman arguments as the facts (some of which he supplied) are irrefutable. DonBoy’s so called “right-wing” did not label a defined group of “non-right-wing media as Mainstream Media”, [and] then shortened [it] to the MSM”. Full Stop.

The “point” Powers, was that the nefarious “Right Wing” did not coin the term Mainstream Media ala DonBoy’s assertion that “the right wing decided to label the non-rightwing media as “the mainstream media”, then shortened to MSM”.

Yeah, except that quote has an entirely different meaning than you’re trying to attribute to it. You’ve quoted DonBoy as saying (correctly) that the right wing decided to label non-rightwing media as MSM, and then attacked him for failing to back up an entirely different claim (that the right wing coined the term MSM). As Powers said, this is a straw man.

I wasn’t worried, just frustrated. I don’t mind the rough-and-tumble of a good give-and-take exchange, especially if I learn something new, but your replies have, mainly, been based on “boo hiss” rather than “Ah but…” And I use those terms allegorically, so please don’t come back with “I [or DonBoy] never said…” I’ll grant your one link was interesting and I believe you are capable of more and better replies. Hence the frustration.

But DonBoy never said that the right wing *coined* the term! You’ve been tearing down a straw man this entire time, apparently.

Well, yes, if you’re not going to read the references I link (or site), then no, the discussion becomes merely tit-for-tat, which I agree achieves nothing.

My (line 43) link to the term “Mainstream” was to establish its credentials as a commonly used term that defines, “the common current thought of the majority”. My (line 47) entry then defined “Mainstream Media” as per Wiki. Here I wrote out the definition in that post, but also gave enough information for you to source it yourself – should you wish to confirm – always assuming, of course, that you actually read it. It is this link that asserts that the term “Mainstream Media“ was “used at an increasing rate beginning in the 1990’s…”

The “point” Powers, was that the nefarious “Right Wing” did not coin the term Mainstream Media ala DonBoy’s assertion that “the right wing decided to label the non-rightwing media as “the mainstream media”, then shortened to MSM”. As I have shown, the term already existed before YOUR link showed Fox News differentiating itself from the rest of the herd by shifting its business model to the right in 1999.

I do not dispute that those self-same nefarious right-wingers have successfully (in some quarters at least) made the term pejorative and differentiated themselves from it (again as your link showed). One might also suggest (and I think this more accurate) that they simply pointed out the obvious – which would better explain why it rankles those so labelled – as it apparently resonated with a substantial portion of the American news-consuming public.

As the saying goes, the MSM made a rod for their own back, and those sneaky right-wingers are beating them with it.

Savage and Stern do have one thing in common, and that’s a readiness to use traditionally taboo language in their uncensored media platforms. But their way of doing so and reasons for doing so are different.

Savage is in a way extremely P.C. — witness the fact that he devoted a few weeks to dialogue and in the end responded positively to the suggestion that he should not say “pussy” as a term of derision or dismissal. Listeners told him that usage was antifeminist or misogynist [two different matters of course], and though he was dubious at first he was convinced later by the communications from his listeners.

I had, and am still having, some difficulty discerning just what DonBoy’s “point” was, short of heaping abuse on Mrs. Palin’s attempts to coin the term “lamestream media” and generally asserting that some amorphous “right-wing” types hung the “mainstream media” label on their rivals. I have offered evidence that this could not be so as the term itself goes way back in US history and was specifically in use n the early 1990’s. Even your link does not dispute this, but only notes that Fox News sought, in 1999, to differentiate itself from its MSM competitors by initiating an editorial swing to the right. The subtext then implies that the rest of the MSM crowd were already left-leaning by this time, essentially proving the MSM bias point. Given Fox News’s success, it was apparently a good business move too.

If DonBoy’s point is his penultimate sentence, “Which, like much modern political abuse by stupid people, makes her sound like a sixth-grader who thinks he’s clever.”, then I would suggest the ancient phrase, “Physician, heal thyself” applies to his own case.

Personally, I am in favour of a robust and wide-ranging media establishment that caters to the needs of a broad spectrum of political ideologies. If this comes about by focussed news entities (with their own brand of biases) such as those that appear to be evolving in the blogosphere – where public competition will weed-out the also-rans and encourage competent reporting – then I say “more power to ‘em”. Debate is healthy, and muzzling the opposition is not – IMHO.