Comics I Don’t Understand

Though actually…

Cidu Bill on May 27th 2010

I think most countries would be pretty damn happy with a one-cent annual surplus.

Filed in Bill Bickel, Wizard of Id, comic strips, comics, humor | 23 responses so far

23 Responses to “Though actually…”

furrykef May 27th 2010 at 12:20 pm 1

Would they be happy with a one-cent treasury?
Detcord May 27th 2010 at 02:00 pm 2

furrykef,

Yeah… as opposed to $13 trillion in debt (and growing - see clock)

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
furrykef May 27th 2010 at 02:35 pm 3

Debt doesn’t mean no money in the treasury. Debt means the money was borrowed. It’s still there, just not permanently. Of course, this is a Wizard of Id comic we’re talking about. No need to read too much into it.

By the way, it is by no means universally agreed that a national debt is a bad thing. I imagine it would be bad for it to go out of control, but large and growing does not mean “out of control”. What makes a national debt bad? If you say “everybody says it is” or “it’s obvious”, then you haven’t thought about it.

- Kef
Daniel J. Drazen May 27th 2010 at 02:45 pm 4

How do you know that’s not a quarter?
furrykef May 27th 2010 at 03:01 pm 5

We don’t, but if a penny surplus is good, surely a quarter surplus is even better!

By the way, to expand further on the debt thing: “debt” means nothing more than “owing money”. Owing money is not a problem in itself. If owing money were a problem, we’d never borrow it. It’s not being able to pay it back that’s a problem.

By the way, do you take out government savings bonds? If so, congratulations, you’re contributing to the national debt.
paperboy May 27th 2010 at 03:25 pm 6

furrykef#3- You say “By the way, it is by no means universally agreed that a national debt is a bad thing.” Yes, but WHO is the money owed to if just about every nation is in debt? (and PLEASE don’t say “the Jews. ho ho.)
furrykef May 27th 2010 at 03:35 pm 7

Governments don’t just borrow from other countries, but also from their own people. Those U.S. savings bonds I mentioned, for example.
Detcord May 27th 2010 at 04:12 pm 8

Actually, if you take out (purchase) government bonds, you are financing government debt, not contributing to it.

Also, debt doesn’t represent money now, but a promise of more money (back) in the future. If the government reneges on that promise, then calling it a “bad thing” would be among the more mild range of expletives I could think of.
furrykef May 27th 2010 at 04:26 pm 9

Actually, if you take out (purchase) government bonds, you are financing government debt, not contributing to it.

I’m confused. Taking out a bond means you’re lending the government money. They have to eventually pay that money back to you, and they pay interest on it. If that isn’t debt, what is it?

Also, debt doesn’t represent money now, but a promise of more money (back) in the future. If the government reneges on that promise, then calling it a “bad thing” would be among the more mild range of expletives I could think of.

And if it doesn’t renege on that promise, then what’s the problem?
Detcord May 27th 2010 at 04:30 pm 10

paperboy (6)

Every nation is not in debt. The top creditor nations are currently China, Japan and Germany. Rather than buy goods from the United States, China prefers to buy its debt. That’s why it is considered, by the CIA no less, to have the largest Current Account Balance in the world ($293 billion).

See link for the full list of creditor nations. I think you’ll recognize many of them.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html
Detcord May 27th 2010 at 04:42 pm 11

furrykef (9)

If the government doesn’t renege on it’s debt promises then there is no problem, obviously. Are you saying that all debt is always paid back? Of course not! True, thus far, the US has been an extremely reliable debtor. But it wasn’t that long ago, 1988, when the US was a creditor nation. In those few short years, the US has managed to become the largest debtor nation in the world - and that makes some creditors nervous.

Nervous creditors make for a nervous economy. Check out Greece, for example.
Charlene May 27th 2010 at 04:47 pm 12

National debt is like an airline. If you believe airline executives, no airline has ever turned a profit, yet they still keep on flying…

(I hate to have to ward off hyper-correction, but yes, there were airlines and airliners long before there were jet aircraft.)
Detcord May 27th 2010 at 05:07 pm 13

furrykef,

You asked, “What makes a national debt bad?”. Answer: when it grows so large that creditors no longer believe said nation can honor it’s promises to pay it back. Note my use of the word, “believe”, rather than “know”. A nation may, in fact, be good for its debts, but if it’s creditors lose confidence in said nation, then it will crash a la 1929.

China, the US’s largest creditor, may be sending such a signal now…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/feb/17/china-sells-us-treasury-bonds
furrykef May 27th 2010 at 06:18 pm 14

Detcord #11 — the link you provided (not to be confused with the link in post #13) doesn’t seem to be talking about the same thing at all. The link you gave would have a U.S. “national debt” of $380 billion in 2009. But the U.S. national debt has been well into the trillions for a very long time, not “merely” hundreds of billions, so obviously those figures are describing something other than national debt (namely, I believe, the trade credit/deficit).
furrykef May 27th 2010 at 06:19 pm 15

Sorry, I think the word “credit” in my final sentence should have been “surplus”, but still, same deal.
Ted in Fort Lauderdale May 27th 2010 at 07:30 pm 16

Furrykey 14/15 - You are correct - Detcord’s linked page shows the current account balance for 2009 for major countries, where current account balance in this case means overall net trade balance. The US’s significant trade deficit is not something to ignore, but pretty unrelated to the national debt…
David N May 27th 2010 at 11:06 pm 17

So, anyway. I think California, Nevada, New Mexico ad nauseum would love to be a penny over. A quarter, and hecktitude would break on the streets of Sacramento.
Winter Wallaby May 28th 2010 at 12:38 am 18

Furrykef, a national debt has potential problems even if the nation pays it back. It’s true that debt is not always bad - however, it’s not true that there’s no problem just because you can pay the debt back. The debt I took out to pay for college may have been a good investment. However the debt I took out to buy a fancy sports car, that depreciated rapidly, while leaving me stuck with high monthly payments that mostly only covered the interest, was probably bad. In my opinion, most of our debt is more analogous to the fancy car. Our foreign debt comes from the fact that we have a culture that encourages people to buy stuff they don’t really need, and to live on the margin, while China is using the interest on their loans to us to finance long-term improvements in their country.

Domestic debt is different, but still potentially problematic. Yes, the government is borrowing the money from its own citizens, but that doesn’t make it costless. People have a limited willingness to loan money, and I make a choice whether to buy government bonds, corporate bonds, or stocks. When the federal debt is larger, the government has to offer higher rates on bonds to attract previously uninterested investors, pulling them away from corporate bonds and stocks. That means both that a higher portion of the federal budget has to go to simply servicing the debt (rather than, say, building roads), and that businesses have less capital for activities that would improve the economy (e.g. issuing bonds to finance a new widget factory).
Detcord May 28th 2010 at 01:55 am 19

furrykef (14)

China is not the “only” creditor to the US. It is, or was until recently, simply the “largest” creditor. Since selling a portion of that debt ($34 billion), Japan now takes (back) that honor. You’ll recall in my #2 post a link that reports the US national debt at $13 Trillion, and growing.

Ted in FL (16) is correct, with reference to my #10 link. There I was simply trying to answer paperboy’s question about creditor vs. debtor nations. There can’t be one without the other. As far as T-bills are concerned, you may find this link interesting.

http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
J-L May 28th 2010 at 10:21 am 20

This joke works out pretty well, as it’s provoking comments exactly in line with the images it’s supposed to invoke.

In the second panel, we see that the treasury is practically nil (a bad thing). In the third panel, we see the “spin” that makes it out to mean they’re not in debt (a good thing).

However, I do see that in the third panel the king’s eyebrows seem angry-looking, making me wonder if his last statement is supposed to be sarcastic.

Either way, the joke is all about the king’s political spin that he puts on the situation.
Gilgamesh May 29th 2010 at 04:29 am 21

If its’ worried about its debt; all the United States has to do is screen its phone calls and not answer the door.
Igelino May 29th 2010 at 03:39 pm 22

Good one Gilgamesh. : )
Maybe that’s what Bush’s foreign policy was based on. ; )
Todd Jun 1st 2010 at 04:42 pm 23

And only days later, Wizard of Id does a bit about the treasury being so full that the king decides to build a bigger vault.