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	<title>Comments on: Retro Virus</title>
	<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/</link>
	<description>JFK: ''we choose to go to the ...''</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 08:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-33127</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-33127</guid>
		<description>I find it funny that people say Macs don't get viruses. I know a friend of mine has gone through two Macbooks in the past year because viruses have killed them beyond salvage. Of course, anecdotal evidence being what it is...

Still, to assume you're safe from viruses is a bad assumption to make. Could cost you a computer.

And, #35, tablets have been around for a while. Many of them Windows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it funny that people say Macs don&#8217;t get viruses. I know a friend of mine has gone through two Macbooks in the past year because viruses have killed them beyond salvage. Of course, anecdotal evidence being what it is&#8230;</p>
<p>Still, to assume you&#8217;re safe from viruses is a bad assumption to make. Could cost you a computer.</p>
<p>And, #35, tablets have been around for a while. Many of them Windows.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32951</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32951</guid>
		<description>The world of Windows on the desktop will fade away when the desktops fade away.

Bring on the tablets!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world of Windows on the desktop will fade away when the desktops fade away.</p>
<p>Bring on the tablets!</p>
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		<title>By: John Small Berries</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32704</link>
		<dc:creator>John Small Berries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32704</guid>
		<description>James, Vista and Windows 7 don't merely "pretend" to give users Administrator privileges. When it creates the primary user, it automatically puts the account into the Administrators group.

Don't believe me? Assuming you haven't removed Admin rights from your user account, verify for yourself on your own computer: right-click on My Computer and select "Manage". Open up "Local Users and Groups", then "Users". Right-click on your username, select "Properties". Click on "Member Of". &lt;a href="http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1368/win7usergroups.png" rel="nofollow"&gt;There's the Administrators group&lt;/a&gt;, the very same one which is assigned to the Administrator account. Genuine administrator rights, not "'fake admin' mode".

As a systems administrator who deals with not only Solaris and Linux but six versions of Windows (2000, XP, Server 2003, Server 2008, Vista and 7) on a daily basis, I can assure you that I'm neither "anti-Windows" nor stuck in 2006.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, Vista and Windows 7 don&#8217;t merely &#8220;pretend&#8221; to give users Administrator privileges. When it creates the primary user, it automatically puts the account into the Administrators group.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t believe me? Assuming you haven&#8217;t removed Admin rights from your user account, verify for yourself on your own computer: right-click on My Computer and select &#8220;Manage&#8221;. Open up &#8220;Local Users and Groups&#8221;, then &#8220;Users&#8221;. Right-click on your username, select &#8220;Properties&#8221;. Click on &#8220;Member Of&#8221;. <a href="http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1368/win7usergroups.png" rel="nofollow">There&#8217;s the Administrators group</a>, the very same one which is assigned to the Administrator account. Genuine administrator rights, not &#8220;&#8216;fake admin&#8217; mode&#8221;.</p>
<p>As a systems administrator who deals with not only Solaris and Linux but six versions of Windows (2000, XP, Server 2003, Server 2008, Vista and 7) on a daily basis, I can assure you that I&#8217;m neither &#8220;anti-Windows&#8221; nor stuck in 2006.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in Boston</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32688</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Boston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32688</guid>
		<description>grr, wordpress mangled that. The second paragraph was supposed to say

"Process (INCOMPREHENSIBLE) wants to do (INCOMPREHENSIBLE).
[OK] [Cancel]"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grr, wordpress mangled that. The second paragraph was supposed to say</p>
<p>&#8220;Process (INCOMPREHENSIBLE) wants to do (INCOMPREHENSIBLE).<br />
[OK] [Cancel]&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in Boston</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32686</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Boston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32686</guid>
		<description>Yes, things were/are "already broken" - that is why everyone always gave/gives themselves administrator privileges. Things don't work otherwise.

I haven't used Vista (let alone Windows 7) except for briefly on a borrowed tablet that BSOD'd within twenty minutes and then took a good fifteen minutes to finish rebooting, so I can't comment on it directly. However, you might want to consider what a typical user will do when a dialog box pops up that says "Process  wants to do  [OK] [Cancel]". Users get trained very quickly to just always click OK.

Meanwhile, the security model in Windows is not anything like the security model in Unix. It's from VMS, and it shares many of the same problems. Most notably, it's too complicated.

As far as architectural-level security problems in NT/XP/whatnot (as opposed to Win95/98/Me which were still basically MS-DOS and had no security at all)... there have been plenty. Reviewing some Windows security bulletins from the 1999-2004 era or so might refresh your memory. For (one) example, because of Windows' silly obsession with filename extensions, there were a pile of really stupid vulnerabilities where Windows would blithely execute files that users and applications thought were e.g. pictures or text. Most of the exploit paths for these design flaws have been fixed by now, but the design flaws still mostly remain, because changing things is hard and Microsoft has little interest in or commitment to bothering.

Why do you suppose there's (last I heard anyway) only one known virus for Linux that has never been seen in the wild? There's no shortage of hacker-kiddie scripts and rootkits and other material, and outdated/unpatched and unfirewalled Linux systems get hacked quite rapidly, so it's not like the user population isn't large enough to support plenty of malware.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, things were/are &#8220;already broken&#8221; - that is why everyone always gave/gives themselves administrator privileges. Things don&#8217;t work otherwise.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t used Vista (let alone Windows 7) except for briefly on a borrowed tablet that BSOD&#8217;d within twenty minutes and then took a good fifteen minutes to finish rebooting, so I can&#8217;t comment on it directly. However, you might want to consider what a typical user will do when a dialog box pops up that says &#8220;Process  wants to do  [OK] [Cancel]&#8221;. Users get trained very quickly to just always click OK.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the security model in Windows is not anything like the security model in Unix. It&#8217;s from VMS, and it shares many of the same problems. Most notably, it&#8217;s too complicated.</p>
<p>As far as architectural-level security problems in NT/XP/whatnot (as opposed to Win95/98/Me which were still basically MS-DOS and had no security at all)&#8230; there have been plenty. Reviewing some Windows security bulletins from the 1999-2004 era or so might refresh your memory. For (one) example, because of Windows&#8217; silly obsession with filename extensions, there were a pile of really stupid vulnerabilities where Windows would blithely execute files that users and applications thought were e.g. pictures or text. Most of the exploit paths for these design flaws have been fixed by now, but the design flaws still mostly remain, because changing things is hard and Microsoft has little interest in or commitment to bothering.</p>
<p>Why do you suppose there&#8217;s (last I heard anyway) only one known virus for Linux that has never been seen in the wild? There&#8217;s no shortage of hacker-kiddie scripts and rootkits and other material, and outdated/unpatched and unfirewalled Linux systems get hacked quite rapidly, so it&#8217;s not like the user population isn&#8217;t large enough to support plenty of malware.</p>
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		<title>By: James Schend</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32663</link>
		<dc:creator>James Schend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32663</guid>
		<description>John, you'd be correct if it were, say, 2006. But it's not. Both Vista and Windows 7 don't give users full Administrative access by default. They have more of a "fake admin" mode, where it pretends to be Administrator for compatibility purposes, but it's really not.

I could take the anti-Windows commenters a lot more serious if they'd at least keep up on what features are in the 3 year old Windows version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you&#8217;d be correct if it were, say, 2006. But it&#8217;s not. Both Vista and Windows 7 don&#8217;t give users full Administrative access by default. They have more of a &#8220;fake admin&#8221; mode, where it pretends to be Administrator for compatibility purposes, but it&#8217;s really not.</p>
<p>I could take the anti-Windows commenters a lot more serious if they&#8217;d at least keep up on what features are in the 3 year old Windows version.</p>
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		<title>By: John Small Berries</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32600</link>
		<dc:creator>John Small Berries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32600</guid>
		<description>The main difference, as has been noted above, is that when you set up Windows (at least the consumer versions thereof), it automatically grants full administrator privileges to the primary user account. When you set up Linux (at least all the distros I've used), it explicitly sets up two accounts: root, and your primary, non-privileged user account (some Linux distros even set up root so that you can't log into it, and force you to explicitly sudo any privileged operations from your nonprivileged account).

That is an inherently more secure model than "give the user admin rights, and if they want to restrict the account to make it safer, they'll have to do it themselves - if they even know it's possible to do so, which most end-users don't".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main difference, as has been noted above, is that when you set up Windows (at least the consumer versions thereof), it automatically grants full administrator privileges to the primary user account. When you set up Linux (at least all the distros I&#8217;ve used), it explicitly sets up two accounts: root, and your primary, non-privileged user account (some Linux distros even set up root so that you can&#8217;t log into it, and force you to explicitly sudo any privileged operations from your nonprivileged account).</p>
<p>That is an inherently more secure model than &#8220;give the user admin rights, and if they want to restrict the account to make it safer, they&#8217;ll have to do it themselves - if they even know it&#8217;s possible to do so, which most end-users don&#8217;t&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: James Schend</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32583</link>
		<dc:creator>James Schend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32583</guid>
		<description>Dave, you need to update your anti-Windows rant for Vista and Windows 7. Unless you've gone out of your way to disable security features, UAC will automatically elevate as-needed*. There was a big problem of incompatible software when Vista first came out, but software that wouldn't run under Vista's UAC was *already broken* in Windows 2000 or Windows XP if you ran in anything other than Administrator. So Windows is just a lot more noisy when saying "hey, this program is broken!" (Despite that, most broken programs still ran fine.)

Microsoft did recognize there were architectural-level security problems... in Windows 9x. That's why they moved everybody to Windows XP (which doesn't share those problems) in the first place.

Also, I always find your complaint a little goofy, since the security model in Windows is virtually identical to the one in Unix/Linux. I mean, if Windows is "insecure" and Linux is "secure" and they both have the exact same permissions implementation... that doesn't even make sense. Especially when people go on to say "Windows permissions should be more like Linux." How would that be possible!? It's already a super-set of Linux's! Anyway, sorry to rant.

* Personally, I find UAC better than Linux, since in Linux the only way to know you need to elevate is by letting it fail the first time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, you need to update your anti-Windows rant for Vista and Windows 7. Unless you&#8217;ve gone out of your way to disable security features, UAC will automatically elevate as-needed*. There was a big problem of incompatible software when Vista first came out, but software that wouldn&#8217;t run under Vista&#8217;s UAC was *already broken* in Windows 2000 or Windows XP if you ran in anything other than Administrator. So Windows is just a lot more noisy when saying &#8220;hey, this program is broken!&#8221; (Despite that, most broken programs still ran fine.)</p>
<p>Microsoft did recognize there were architectural-level security problems&#8230; in Windows 9x. That&#8217;s why they moved everybody to Windows XP (which doesn&#8217;t share those problems) in the first place.</p>
<p>Also, I always find your complaint a little goofy, since the security model in Windows is virtually identical to the one in Unix/Linux. I mean, if Windows is &#8220;insecure&#8221; and Linux is &#8220;secure&#8221; and they both have the exact same permissions implementation&#8230; that doesn&#8217;t even make sense. Especially when people go on to say &#8220;Windows permissions should be more like Linux.&#8221; How would that be possible!? It&#8217;s already a super-set of Linux&#8217;s! Anyway, sorry to rant.</p>
<p>* Personally, I find UAC better than Linux, since in Linux the only way to know you need to elevate is by letting it fail the first time!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in Boston</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32538</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Boston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32538</guid>
		<description>Linux is still fundamentally more secure than Windows. How many of you gave your main Windows user account administrator privileges? How many of you tried not to and gave up because things didn't work? When has this *ever* been a problem in Unix?

Microsoft spent a long time denying that they had any such thing as architectural-level security problems, but did eventually wake up, and they've spent most of the last 9-10 years or so playing catch-up. They're finally starting to get there, maybe... 

Steffen: normally "viruses" are a subcategory of "malware".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linux is still fundamentally more secure than Windows. How many of you gave your main Windows user account administrator privileges? How many of you tried not to and gave up because things didn&#8217;t work? When has this *ever* been a problem in Unix?</p>
<p>Microsoft spent a long time denying that they had any such thing as architectural-level security problems, but did eventually wake up, and they&#8217;ve spent most of the last 9-10 years or so playing catch-up. They&#8217;re finally starting to get there, maybe&#8230; </p>
<p>Steffen: normally &#8220;viruses&#8221; are a subcategory of &#8220;malware&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steffen</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32529</link>
		<dc:creator>Steffen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/retro-virus/#comment-32529</guid>
		<description>As a techie who uses Windows, I think the joke is that for Windows computers, viruses have become much less of an issue relative to all complaints - malware is the problem you're likely to deal with.  Viruses nowadays are rare because they accomplish nothing, while malware at least makes the author money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a techie who uses Windows, I think the joke is that for Windows computers, viruses have become much less of an issue relative to all complaints - malware is the problem you&#8217;re likely to deal with.  Viruses nowadays are rare because they accomplish nothing, while malware at least makes the author money.</p>
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