Uncle Tom
Cidu Bill on Jan 7th 2010
Nicole: Is everyone tired of War on Christmas and Global Warming discussions? Me too. How about a discussion about race … we haven’t had one of those in a while :-)I thought this was an LOL, but I wonder about others. I know Keith Knight is black, but I am not sure that would matter to me, but it might to others. Is this comic offensive? Is it less offensive because it was drawn by a black man? If Keith was white, would the comic considered racist ?
Just as a matter of interest: These two interviews explain how “Uncle Tom” evolved into an epithet, when in fact the Uncle Tom’s Cabin character was truly heroic. Interestingly, the public perception of Professor Henry Gates, the subject of the second interview, went through a similar change a few months after the interview was recorded, when he became less well known as a leading African American scholar than as the man who got arrested after throwing a temper tantrum with a Cambridge police officer -Bill
Filed in Bill Bickel, comic strips, comics, humor, race | 47 responses so far
Seth Finkelstein Jan 7th 2010 at 12:34 pm 1
“How about a discussion about race … Interestingly, the public perception of Professor Henry Gates, …”
You’re making sure the thread gets warm and toasty, right?
Elyrest Jan 7th 2010 at 12:52 pm 2
This must be the lead up to Martin Luther King Day and Black History Month.
dd Jan 7th 2010 at 12:55 pm 3
Ooh! Don’t forget this if we’re talking about race this week:
http://www.slashfood.com/2010/01/06/kfc-ad-slammed-as-racist-in-us/
Sili Jan 7th 2010 at 01:00 pm 4
Well, it is pretty cold these days. In this hemisphere, at least.
Elyrest Jan 7th 2010 at 01:00 pm 5
dd (3)- it’s easy to see how that KFC ad could be interpreted. What ever were they thinking?
Marshal Jan 7th 2010 at 01:44 pm 6
Elyrest,
They were probably thinking the add would get Australians to buy more KFC.
The add seems to have been made in Australia for the local audience and not
for the U.S.
With the Internet this kind of thing is going to happen often. Lets face it
what is considered taboo in the U.S. is not necessarily considered Taboo in
other countries.
The interesting question is was it one of KFC competitors who released the
ad on Youtube.
Marshal Jan 7th 2010 at 01:46 pm 7
Rethinking the above a bit and I think Taboo is probably the wrong word.
Stereotype maybe?
Elyrest Jan 7th 2010 at 02:02 pm 8
Marshall - I could see where they were going with the ad (single fan vs single white) and it didn’t bother me a bit, but I could also understand why there was a controversy. Things like this are going to happen in a world where the internet can cross boundaries in seconds. I read some of the comments and it’s obvious that people are very sensitive when outsiders criticize. Was it a bad ad? Probably not for the market it was intended for.
Just so we don’t forget Uncle Tom, I don’t think this comic is offensive at all. I don’t think it would be offensive if it was done by a white person either, but in this day and age I’m not sure a white person would even attempt it.
Keera Jan 7th 2010 at 02:02 pm 9
I have absolutely no clue one way or the other if anything presented here is racist (including the KFC ad which looked like so many Norwegian ads, meaning, white guy clueless and lost in a foreign place). The cartoon is a lame joke and nothing else, IMO, but what do I and my blue eyes and fair skin know?
Anthony Jan 7th 2010 at 02:13 pm 10
Yes this was a LOL moment. It might have worked for a white guy with the demeanor of say Robin Williams but not by much.
A discussion on race? relex hon, white folks won.
Kevin A Jan 7th 2010 at 02:18 pm 11
Enjoying chicken is racist; eating watermelon is racist; resting outdoors in your back yard is racist; tap-dancing is racist; being a happy janitor with helpful advice is racist (”All That Jazz”). The loss to America seems endless; … can anything enjoyable, positive, friendly, or requiring exceptional talent be an acceptable thing anymore to mention or depict about any particular afro-american individual?
Nicole Jan 7th 2010 at 02:21 pm 12
Anthony #10 … Hon ???? what decade are you living in …LOL
Judge Mental Jan 7th 2010 at 02:53 pm 13
@Kevin A:
When I see a “happy janitor with helpful advice”, I actually think “Frazz”, not Jazz
Kevin A Jan 7th 2010 at 03:12 pm 14
Amen to that!
paperboy Jan 7th 2010 at 03:22 pm 15
What’s also funny about this comic is that I (and, oh, maybe at least 100 million other Americans) thought up this joke in the ’60s. The main racist thing is that Blacks were called “Uncle” and “Aunt” so that Whites would not have to address them as “Mister” or “Miss”. Because Keith is Black, it can’t be considered offensive unless you are Black, but it can be racist.
furrykef Jan 7th 2010 at 03:29 pm 16
Yeah, but Frazz is white, so he can get away with it. He can also get away with eating fried chicken, eating watermelon, resting outdoors in his backyard, and tap-dancing. Though I can’t imagine him eating something as unhealthy as fried chicken, or idly relaxing for any extended period. Relaxing, yes, but not idly.
Anyway, no discussion about things that are only offensive in certain countries is complete without mentioning the Pokemon card that had a swastika on it. (But now I’ve mentioned it, so nobody else has to.)
- Kef
Tim Jan 7th 2010 at 03:56 pm 17
You know, a global warming discussion would be really nice, right about now!
Kevin A Jan 7th 2010 at 04:43 pm 18
Oooh, good point, furrykef, keeping the distinctions of the words “offensive” and “racist”. I remember when one had to “assume” someone liked fried chicken in order to be racist (or offensive) (despite fried chicken being the American icon of picnic deliciousness (for carnivores)).
Tim made me laugh! Hooo!
Kate C Jan 7th 2010 at 05:17 pm 19
Unrelated, but related to the idea of Gates’ shfting cultural “meaning,” I was a linguistics major in college and found it utterly baffling when people in my “regular” life started reading, talking about, and having fierce opinions on Noam Chomsky. It was, of course, for his politics and not his ideas on grammar and formal languages, but it was still very strange for me to see this figure I had thought of as “belonging” purely to the lingusitcs nerds enter the normal lexicon.
And I suppose I feel the same way about Gates. I’m not an expert on him or anything, but I was familar with his work and ideas, and had read a number of his books, and thought his ideas were challenging. But now he is just the whiny college professor.
furrykef Jan 7th 2010 at 07:28 pm 20
Funny enough I’m still much more familiar with Chomsky for his linguistic ideas than for his politics. Which isn’t to say I’m very familiar with them, but I at least know the basic idea of transformational grammar and such.
jjmcgaffey Jan 7th 2010 at 08:05 pm 21
My mother’s brother, Tom, was the first adult I ever called by his unadorned first name - he was _not_ going to be called Uncle Tom. Both of us entirely white.
I found the comic amusing, not racist, because of this. The ‘Uncle Tom’ epithet is (intentionally) offensive; the ‘blackness’ of it is…less important. Of course, I’ve never actually read the book, so my opinion is quite fuzzy on the matter. The interviews were interesting - well, the first one, I didn’t listen to the second (or the first - but that one had a transcript).
Mark in Boston Jan 7th 2010 at 08:23 pm 22
“Jim Crow” is another one. There really was a Jim Crow, although that was his stage name, not his real name. He was a Black entertainer traveling around on the white entertainers’ circuit. This was a problem in some places, which is why those places invented Jim Crow laws.
By the way I capitalize “Black” but not “white”. Is that correct? Anyway I’ve never seen a white person. I’ve seen lots of pink people.
Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^) Jan 7th 2010 at 08:45 pm 23
@Mark I’ve never seen a black person either, just a bunch of brown people :). Pink and brown! It sounds so glamorous.
Nicole Jan 7th 2010 at 10:41 pm 24
Offense often comes from intent that is why gays can call each other fags and blacks can call each other nigger (just making a point here folks … just making a point) … they assume there is no intent to offend from people in their own group. When it comes from outside intent is questionable, and often people who say offensive things hide behind humor .. “can’t you take a joke” … “I was kidding, you take yourself too seriously”, when humor was the last thing on their mind.
I had a friend, we constantly kidded about fired chicken and watermelon. He knew me well enough to know that I was not being offensive, but I would never make the same jokes to some I didn’t know as well as I did him.
If this doesn’t get moderated I will be shocked
Kier Jan 7th 2010 at 11:15 pm 25
I’ve actually asked some Australian friends about the KFC ad, and I don’t think it’s racist if taken in context. The white fan is an Australian cricket fan and the other fans are West Indian cricket fans, a team that was touring in Australian last year (I believe) when the ad aired. A large majority of Australian fans are white and a large majority of West Indian fans are black. Uncomfortable with being surrounded by the opposing teams fans, he shares his food to ease the tension, the sterotype of blacks and fried chicken also not existing in Australian. One of my friends asked me if I would find the same ad racists if it took place between a American spectator and Chinese spectators at the Beijing Olympics with oh… say, popcorn being shared. If an ad is made in one part of the world, should it consider the stereotypes in other parts of the world? It’s a fair question in the global age.
Elyrest Jan 7th 2010 at 11:43 pm 26
“I had a friend, we constantly kidded about fired chicken”
Nicole - I’d like me a piece of that mighty fine fired chicken please.
Chakolate Jan 7th 2010 at 11:56 pm 27
It’s always less offensive when we joke about ourselves and our own.
Robert Jan 8th 2010 at 01:02 am 28
Well, I’ve actually met Mr. Knight, and have all his cartoon collections. I don’t think this is racist; he’s playing off the character’s depicted Africentricity (or Afrocentricity, if you prefer) vs the traditional meaning of the epithet. He ‘plays’ with such themes rather often in his strips.
#15, Paperboy - good point. Thanks for bringing that up.
#11, Kevin - the subtext of your post seems to be ‘I can no longer offend people with impunity; the loss to America seems endless.’ I don’t see the loss as being to America, myself.
Frank the curmudgeon Jan 8th 2010 at 01:07 am 29
Is the word Negro racist? Should it be used on the US Census?
furrykef Jan 8th 2010 at 03:26 am 30
Robert - I’m not sure you understood the point of Kevin’s post. Kevin was pointing out that there are people who do happen to conform to the stereotypes. I remember reading about one author who was criticized for depicting an African-American family going out on a picnic and, among other things, eating watermelon. Well, it turned out that the author was an African-American who used to go out on picnics and, among other things, eat watermelon. He was merely giving his characters the same sort of childhood that he had.
That doesn’t mean that the stereotype is right, or that it shouldn’t be offensive, but there is such a thing as overreacting to it. Sometimes black people eat watermelon. Sometimes white people do too. Who cares, really?
- Kef
furrykef Jan 8th 2010 at 03:34 am 31
Or to put it another way, what Kevin was saying has nothing to do with “offending people with impunity”. Kevin’s point was that the behavior itself is becoming offensive, when it shouldn’t be. Stereotypes can and probably should be offensive, but there should be nothing offensive about normal people doing normal things if there is no particular reason to believe a stereotype is being invoked.
Kevin A Jan 8th 2010 at 04:42 am 32
Robert - No, that’s not what I meant at all; you missed the “one *had* to” point. (I’m disappointed with having my words twisted to the opposite meaning.)
I was saying it was understandable when a person was offended upon having someone say to him “Oh you’re black, you must tap dance well. Show me.” That was the standard of offence by stereotype. I get that. It’s like saying “Oh you’re an actor; you must be gay. Here, meet my brother. Being in “A Chorus Line” must be a dream of yours.”
Now (or actually, in the 1980s) if a black person actually wants to tap dance and/or do it in a movie, that very possibility was deemed offensive. As was being black and smiling, apparently. That’s what I’m saying has been crazy.
I see hope in that we’ve been moving back a bit towards celebration of multi-rhythmic jazz and rock music backing full bodied singing and dancing. It helps keep the heating bills down so maybe we’ll get some support.
Kevin A Jan 8th 2010 at 04:51 am 33
Oh no! I should have checked before I posted.
I knew that probably anyone could do it better than I could, since I failed the first time when I thought I was being careful.
No wonder Tim’s comment made me laugh.
I just didn’t think that anyone else might be up at 3am.
Thanks furrykef; I continue to hope, someday, to speak that clearly. (Sorry Robert.)
chuckers Jan 8th 2010 at 04:53 am 34
The KFC ad is probably coming uncomfortably close to a line it should be near. But then again, black folks NEVER eat fried chicken, right?
Then there was this a few months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upt74-MzAIc
Nicole Jan 8th 2010 at 07:30 am 35
Elyrest #26 … so that’s the way it is going to be around here now HUH ????? LOL
Never rely on a spell checker
Carl Jan 8th 2010 at 09:07 am 36
I have a white friend named “Thomas” who has been telling the Uncle Tom joke ever since his sister and her black husband had a kid. So far no one has been offended.
Morris Keesan Jan 8th 2010 at 09:22 am 37
I’m perfectly willing to believe that KFC-Australia and/or their advertising agency was blissfully unaware of the U.S. stereotype.
An interesting point about the epithet “Uncle Tom”, which I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned, is that not only is it an insult that is exclusively aimed AT black Americans, but I can’t imagine it being directed FROM anyone but a black American. It makes no sense to me to imagine a white person calling a black person an “Uncle Tom”, considering that its connotations are entirely “us” vs. “them”, where the “us” is the African-American community.
I can’t see any way in which this comic could be considered racist, even if the cartoonist were white, and the only people I can imagine taking offense at it would be hypersensitive political-correctness police being offended on behalf of others.
Then again, I’m just a white Jewish kid from the suburbs, so what do I know?
Elyrest Jan 8th 2010 at 11:44 am 38
Nicole (#35) - I knew you’d laugh, that’s why I kided you.
As for Uncle Tom, it wasn’t until Morris Keesan’s (#37) observation that I realized I have an Uncle Tom. Not that I didn’t know it, but because I’m like Keera (blue eyes and fair skin) I never equated it with the cartoon. It makes me wonder if I was black if I would have brought this up right away.
Elyrest Jan 8th 2010 at 11:46 am 39
Nicole - Make that kidded you. (Don’t you just hate it when you see the mistake just as you hit submit?)
Nicole Jan 8th 2010 at 12:37 pm 40
Elyrest #39 — I hate it if I ever made a mistake
MrKenneth Jan 8th 2010 at 09:43 pm 41
so when and where are all the regulars going to meet for that summertime CIDU convention?
Nicole Jan 8th 2010 at 10:46 pm 42
At CIDU Bill’s house for a barbecue
Morris Keesan Jan 8th 2010 at 11:07 pm 43
Bill’s house works for me. Somewhere in New York State, right? Maybe Long Island? That’s within a day’s drive for me.
Elyrest Jan 8th 2010 at 11:22 pm 44
Does Bill know about this yet?
Nicole Jan 9th 2010 at 09:16 am 45
he does now
MrKenneth Jan 10th 2010 at 01:09 pm 46
I will be in Philly the week 6/29 - 7/4. Either side of that good for me. NY not far away but my memory tells me CIDU Bill lived on the Gulf coast, but then again I am older.
Elyrest Jan 14th 2010 at 12:22 pm 47
I don’t know if anyone will see this comment as we have moved on to gay marriage, butt dialing and Pat Robertson being the devil, but I’ll throw it in anyway.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/22232841/detail.html
The Denver Public Schools are apologizing for a planned lunch menu for Martin Luther King Day.
“The lunch, planned for Friday, was to include southern-style chicken, collard greens and a biscuit in honor of King.”
The problem wasn’t what they were serving, but that no one thought that there would be a problem with what they were serving. They were trying to honor his southern heritage, but forgot about cultural stereotypes. Many people are too sensitive about things like this, but until the caricature stops being a caricature people have to be more aware of how insensitive something like this can look. Hopefully there will be a day when fried chicken can be openly served on MLK Day, but we aren’t there yet.