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	<title>Comments on: Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra</title>
	<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/</link>
	<description>JFK: ''we choose to go to the ...''</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 07:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: MrKenneth</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29314</link>
		<dc:creator>MrKenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29314</guid>
		<description>Orgasmic thoughts and body language suggesting a "cooling down" or Star Trek minuitae....we've gotten waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic here, but that is not uncommon on this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Orgasmic thoughts and body language suggesting a &#8220;cooling down&#8221; or Star Trek minuitae&#8230;.we&#8217;ve gotten waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic here, but that is not uncommon on this site.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29304</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29304</guid>
		<description>DiCaprio?  Edda has an appreciation of (preference for ?) the classics.  It wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't seen Titanic; even if she has, I'm sure she prefers the superior A Night to Remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DiCaprio?  Edda has an appreciation of (preference for ?) the classics.  It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me if she hasn&#8217;t seen Titanic; even if she has, I&#8217;m sure she prefers the superior A Night to Remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29301</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29301</guid>
		<description>Edda is much younger, BobPete, but Brooke McEldowney isn't, and Gable turns him on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edda is much younger, BobPete, but Brooke McEldowney isn&#8217;t, and Gable turns him on.</p>
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		<title>By: bobpeters61</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29297</link>
		<dc:creator>bobpeters61</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29297</guid>
		<description>Clark Gable?  I thought Edda was much, much younger than that.

Possibly even Leonardo DiCaprio in "Titanic."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clark Gable?  I thought Edda was much, much younger than that.</p>
<p>Possibly even Leonardo DiCaprio in &#8220;Titanic.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: paperboy</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29288</link>
		<dc:creator>paperboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29288</guid>
		<description>..."We just couldn't connect. I tried 'rock' , and I tried 'star', and 'tree' and 'fire' and lord knows what else, and try as I would, I couldn't get a single word! Nothing was the same for two successive minutes, and if that's a language, I'm an alchemist! Finally I gave it up and called him Tweel, and that seemed to do."....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8221;We just couldn&#8217;t connect. I tried &#8216;rock&#8217; , and I tried &#8217;star&#8217;, and &#8216;tree&#8217; and &#8216;fire&#8217; and lord knows what else, and try as I would, I couldn&#8217;t get a single word! Nothing was the same for two successive minutes, and if that&#8217;s a language, I&#8217;m an alchemist! Finally I gave it up and called him Tweel, and that seemed to do.&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29260</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29260</guid>
		<description>How do we know they have diners and coffee?  How terribly terran-centric to assume that an advanced alien civilization must have developed diners and coffee!

We learn only a little about the aliens in this episode, so there's lots of room for speculation -- that's where the fun is!  I always wondered how metaphor alone would express the complex scientific and technological  concepts required to build starships.  Most likely, metaphor is only one part of how they communicate.  But you can see how they would consider it important in diplomacy.

The equation 2 + 2 = 4 might communicate to an alien that you possess a mind capable of understanding mathermatics and a certain kind of logic.  If the alien responds with 3 + 3 = 6, you know that it has similar capabilities.  But there's a lot more to First Contact situations than basic math.  The alien captain in the TNG episode wanted to know if humans understood the concepts of cooperation, loyalty and friendship represented by the story of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.  But perhaps there's another component (telepathy?) to their communication that humans can't pick up.  This would explain their captain's frustration at Picard's failure to understand his verbal communication alone.  It would also explain why the alien captain would expect humans to understand his metaphors, even when he knew that they had no experience with or knowledge of his culture.  Clearly he was sending other information that the Picard and the rest of the crew weren't picking up.

For more on the difficulties of communicating with aliens, see Stanley G. Weinbaum's 1934 classic short story, 'A Martian Odyssey'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do we know they have diners and coffee?  How terribly terran-centric to assume that an advanced alien civilization must have developed diners and coffee!</p>
<p>We learn only a little about the aliens in this episode, so there&#8217;s lots of room for speculation &#8212; that&#8217;s where the fun is!  I always wondered how metaphor alone would express the complex scientific and technological  concepts required to build starships.  Most likely, metaphor is only one part of how they communicate.  But you can see how they would consider it important in diplomacy.</p>
<p>The equation 2 + 2 = 4 might communicate to an alien that you possess a mind capable of understanding mathermatics and a certain kind of logic.  If the alien responds with 3 + 3 = 6, you know that it has similar capabilities.  But there&#8217;s a lot more to First Contact situations than basic math.  The alien captain in the TNG episode wanted to know if humans understood the concepts of cooperation, loyalty and friendship represented by the story of Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.  But perhaps there&#8217;s another component (telepathy?) to their communication that humans can&#8217;t pick up.  This would explain their captain&#8217;s frustration at Picard&#8217;s failure to understand his verbal communication alone.  It would also explain why the alien captain would expect humans to understand his metaphors, even when he knew that they had no experience with or knowledge of his culture.  Clearly he was sending other information that the Picard and the rest of the crew weren&#8217;t picking up.</p>
<p>For more on the difficulties of communicating with aliens, see Stanley G. Weinbaum&#8217;s 1934 classic short story, &#8216;A Martian Odyssey&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29259</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29259</guid>
		<description>&#62; how could they speak in metaphor unless they had a “normal” language first

Maybe they "bootstrap" it in some way, by building bigger metaphors on smaller metaphors. Perhaps the alien commander should have tried their version of baby-talk, but I can believe he didn't think of it. 

It's quite possible they talk a lot less in daily life than humans  do - e.g. they order coffee by pointing at a picture of it.  Think of a monastery where the monks have taken a vow of silence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; how could they speak in metaphor unless they had a “normal” language first</p>
<p>Maybe they &#8220;bootstrap&#8221; it in some way, by building bigger metaphors on smaller metaphors. Perhaps the alien commander should have tried their version of baby-talk, but I can believe he didn&#8217;t think of it. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite possible they talk a lot less in daily life than humans  do - e.g. they order coffee by pointing at a picture of it.  Think of a monastery where the monks have taken a vow of silence.</p>
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		<title>By: CIDU Bill</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29251</link>
		<dc:creator>CIDU Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29251</guid>
		<description>While I found the TNG episode interesting, the premise bugged the hell out of me because how could they speak in metaphor unless they had a "normal" language first. And how could they speak this way for everything? Do they go into a diner and order coffee by saying "El Exigente approves and the people rejoice"?

Years later I saw the episode again and came to the same conclusion Fnord did: that this was a matter of protocol and even if the alien commander could understand Picard, he could only acknowledge him if he expressed himself according to local tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I found the TNG episode interesting, the premise bugged the hell out of me because how could they speak in metaphor unless they had a &#8220;normal&#8221; language first. And how could they speak this way for everything? Do they go into a diner and order coffee by saying &#8220;El Exigente approves and the people rejoice&#8221;?</p>
<p>Years later I saw the episode again and came to the same conclusion Fnord did: that this was a matter of protocol and even if the alien commander could understand Picard, he could only acknowledge him if he expressed himself according to local tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: CIDU Bill</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29250</link>
		<dc:creator>CIDU Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29250</guid>
		<description>Agreeing with Jenny, I'd add that decades after Mel Gibson and Brad Pitt's deaths, I doubt anybody will write comic strips in which anybody fantasizes about tehm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreeing with Jenny, I&#8217;d add that decades after Mel Gibson and Brad Pitt&#8217;s deaths, I doubt anybody will write comic strips in which anybody fantasizes about tehm.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29249</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 03:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/2009/12/08/darmok-and-jalad-at-tanagra/#comment-29249</guid>
		<description>Speaking as someone only slightly older than Edda -- at least more in her ballpark than Juliette's -- I prefer both Clark Gable and Cary Grant to Mel Gibson or, say, Brad Pitt. Smarter dialogue, for one, which makes them look a lot better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as someone only slightly older than Edda &#8212; at least more in her ballpark than Juliette&#8217;s &#8212; I prefer both Clark Gable and Cary Grant to Mel Gibson or, say, Brad Pitt. Smarter dialogue, for one, which makes them look a lot better.</p>
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