Comments on: ”Do We Not Pay You Enough?”

By: Prosfilaes

Prosfilaes — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:30:02 +0000

So do we have records of where John McCain’s mother was during John McCain’s birth? How do we really know that he was born in the Panama Canal Zone? Isn’t it a little suspicious that he was born somewhere so tightly controlled by the government where people from on high could trivially manipulate every detail of the records?

The Honolulu Sun published the report of Obama’s birth in Hawaii when it happened; between that and his birth certificate, I can’t see how anyone could honestly believe he wasn’t born in Hawaii without quite a bit of bias. You’ll note that no one bothers arguing with the flat earthers any more, and that most biologists refuse to respond to scientific creationists. If your audience is holding on to a belief that’s completely absurd and illogical, arguing with them will gain you nothing, waste your time and may give them credence.

By: Lost in A**2

Lost in A**2 — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:06:42 +0000

tool, yes, he would probably be “stateless,” depending upon the laws of Panama. The problem is that *at the time of his birth*, Congress had made no provision for the citizenship of the children of citizens abroad. (Remember, servicemen still needed the permission of their commanding officer to wed.) Did the ex post facto law grant him citizenship at/by birth, or make him a naturalised citizen? I don’t know. Fortunately, the matter is moot.

By: tool

tool — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:10:09 +0000

McCain, like me, was born in US territory (the Canal Zone for him) on a US base in a US hospital. If he isn’t a natural born (not naturalized) citizen of the USA, then what would he be? A citizen of Panama? Ridiculous. Stateless, like children born in France (and other European nations) of immigrant parents? Gah.

Unless there is any record of Obama’s mother traveling abroad near his birth date I have no problem accepting his citizenship status, but that doesn’t mean requests to view the original are invalid. I have seen California birth certificates that look much like a receipt (narrow paper from a roll, blue printing, no seal) that can’t possibly be the original. Claiming “we refuse to provide evidence because it won’t be believed anyway” solves nothing.

While I’m at it, casting opposition to Presidential initiatives as racist is worse. A majority opposed the health care plan proposed by the Clinton administration, too; policy should be defended on it’s merits, not by attacking detractors.

By: Harise

Harise — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:56:18 +0000

it’s the pause after he says “that”, that prompts him to ask, what don’t we pay you enough. it’s like, et tu brute?

By: blueiguana

blueiguana — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:45:31 +0000

@Several Posters: There were at least *four* recounts in Florida - all of which resulted in Bush winning. Gore kept handpicking counties where he thought that he could do well, and ballots were showing up in garbage bags and in the trunks of cars. The nonsense was finally brought to an end when it seemed clear that it all was getting fishier the longer it went on.

By: Lost in A**2

Lost in A**2 — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:55:04 +0000

GP, I disagree with your interpretation of the wording of the 14th Amendment; the Amendment is NOT exclusionary, as you seem to think.

My daughter fits your hypothetical. By law, she is a citizen by birth and so is eligible to the Presidency.

The issue in Mr McCain’s case is that the law did not cover Panama at the time of his birth. So any retroactive law would make him a ‘naturalised’ citizen and so ineligible for the Presidency. And yes, folks were arguing about his citizenship before the election.

By: Lord-z

Lord-z — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 07:33:12 +0000

Powers - You are talking about a law concerning citizenship of the children of non-citizens. Had Dunham not been a citizen by birth, then the law might have applied. Since she was born a citizen, that law doesn’t apply.

By: anaceofkidneys

anaceofkidneys — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 02:44:00 +0000

“So he leaves it maybe - could be the Birth Cert is Hawaiian but ‘birthers’ would never believe it anyway, could be it’s not.”

Of course! I had forgotten about the Hawaii thing. Yes, there was a recent survey among birthers in which an alarming number - over 10% - did not believe Hawaii is a state. Now I think that must be what Trudeau was getting at.

By: Ian Osmond

Ian Osmond — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:27:23 +0000

Tim: that’s the argument I don’t get.

That’s a CERTIFICATE of live BIRTH. Also known as a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Where did you hear that there exists a Super Secret Mysterious Even More Certificate Of Even More Live Birth?

The thing says “CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH” right on the top of the sucker. That’s what a birth certificate LOOKS like.

Doctor/Lawyer/Realtor ORLY? YA RLY claims that there exists an even more super secret birth certificate that he’s not showing . . . but maybe she’s just delusional.

By: chuckers

chuckers — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:06:30 +0000

GP:

Refer here:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

Specifically here:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sec_08_00001401—-000-.html

and here:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1405.html

Obama would not be a citizen if he was 110 years old. Pretty sure he is not.

My daughter is an American citizen but unfortunately (or fortunately) can never
be President. She will just have to grow up to be an Astronaut.