Are You Pondering What I’m Pondering?

Cidu Bill on Dec 29th 2008

  • Where would you find more Jews: in temple on Yom Kippur, or in Chinese restaurants on Christmas?

Filed in Bill Bickel, Christmas, Judaism | 23 responses so far

23 Responses to “Are You Pondering What I’m Pondering?”

  1. Paul Dec 29th 2008 at 07:20 pm 1

    Where is the Chinese restaurant and where is the temple? Also, how big is the Chinese restaurant vs. the size of the temple?

  2. This guy I know Dec 29th 2008 at 07:44 pm 2

    And are we limiting our counts only to Jews in America, or all over the world?

    How Jewish is Jewish enough? If a person’s mother is Jewish, but the person was raised Catholic, does that still count as Jewish?

    Do fast-food Chinese restaurants count? While the food is tasty, it can hardly be described as authentic. What if the staff consists largely of people of Mexican descent?

    And is a Political Correctness Death Squad going to come after me for posting here?

  3. Cidu Bill Dec 29th 2008 at 07:49 pm 3

    By Jewish I mean “Jewish enough that you don’t celebrate Christmas,” and I also mean American Jews since as a good American I consider anything done by non-Americans to be irrelevant.

    For the record, Indians share this Christmas tradition, as we were reminded when we were unable to get into a sold-out showing of Slumdog Millionaire.

  4. Yaniv Dec 29th 2008 at 09:34 pm 4

    This Guy I Know - Considering the tradition discussed, only the fast food chinese places count. The rest are TOO authentic.

    And on behalf of Jews everywhre, I do hereby grant all participants of this discussion pardons from any political incorrectness accusations.:)

  5. Catlover Dec 29th 2008 at 09:56 pm 5

    Thank you for a last day of Chanukah thinker.

    I might guess that it is up to the Reformed swing vote.

    Regarding Chinese restaurants on Christmas - unless it is Kosher Chinese, you are largely limited to Reformed Jews. True, you aren’t going to worry much about having dairy mixed with meat (which is also VERY helpful for those with dairy allergies/intolerance) except at buffets. But you do have pork and prohibited seafood to deal with, and the beef, chicken, etc. isn’t certified. Then again, I find it hard to classify a Chinese restaurant under strict Kashruth supervision of OU as REALLY Chinese. (Have you ever TASTED Kosher Chinese? Yech. And such small portions - except maybe for Kosher Delight on Broadway!)

    Regarding temple on Yom Kippur: that should be a big one all around.

    But my calculation is probably wrong, as typified by the famous joke:

    This is the Jewish year 5769 …
    … and the Chinese year 4706.

    What did Jewish people eat for the first 1063 years?

  6. Catlover Dec 29th 2008 at 10:01 pm 6

    My apologies for not changing my nom de plume for a discussion regarding Chinese food. It is not a reference to my meal preference.

  7. This guy I know Dec 29th 2008 at 10:46 pm 7

    As I would be more likely to find myself in or near a Chinese restaurant on Christmas, than in or near a Temple on Yom Kippur, I would say that seeing any in the first situation would definitely be more than seeing nothing in the second situation. OK, maybe I’m willfully taking the question too literally just to be difficult.

    From personal experience being raised Catholic, Christians can be split into three groups: Every Sundsy, Easter/Christmas, and Wedding/Funeral. With the majority being in the second and third groups, and hardly going attending church at all. This makes me wonder, is this situation the same with other religions? (Are my assumptions even true for Christianity?)

    As to the other part of the question, is the stereotype of “Jews in a Chinese restaurant” still current? How accurate was it historically? What started such a tradition, going out to eat on a day when most establishments would be closed? Do today’s Jews have the same desire for Chinese food?

    Now I’m pretty sure I’m taking this way too seriously and over-thinking things. I’ll quit while I still have some dignity.

  8. Cidu Bill Dec 29th 2008 at 11:22 pm 8

    This Guy, presumably the tradition exists because Chinese restaurants are pretty much the only ones open on Christmas, and of course movie theatres are open. And at least based on my circle of acquaintances, it’s very current.

    And just a slight correction, Catlover: Conservative Jews don’t tend to keep Kosher anymore, and even some who do make odd exceptions. Some keep Kosher only in their homes and will eat anything that’s not BLATANTLY non-Kosher (such as pork) outside of the home. My grandmother made an all-purpose Chinese restaurant exception.

    (for the Judaism-impaired: Jews are basically divided — in descending order of strict observance — between Orthodox, Conservative and Reform)

  9. AMC Dec 29th 2008 at 11:27 pm 9

    Or, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Cultural….

  10. Kevin Andresen Dec 30th 2008 at 12:38 am 10

    I pondered and I found this an excellent question and I am lucky to have had so many Jewish friends throughout my life that I can hazard a guess.

    Of late, I find the more earthy, barefoot dancing, tree-hugging Jewish folks I hang around with are going to Temple more and more.

    And my Jewish friends from High School in the 70s, my college roommate and fellow workers through the 80s loved Chinese food.

    So I’m calling it a draw. (Temples, like American mosques, don’t call attention to themselves. I think there are a lot more of them than I know about.)

    Here’s Saturday Night Live contributor Robert Smigel’s window on what they do:
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/1373/saturday-night-live-christmas-for-the-jews-song

  11. Kevin Andresen Dec 30th 2008 at 12:45 am 11

    I mean a tie, not a “draw”. Equal; I mean I think they’re the same, within the same order of magnitude (you know, less than 3.2 to 1) or no more than 10 to 1 either way. I don’t know…. That’s a lot of pondering. If you had pondered this a little earlier I would have had something to do Christmas Eve besides watching “It’s A Wonderful Life” on NBC (which was, as always, much more wonderful than I remembered); and I would have had Chinese Food. !

  12. Tom T. Dec 30th 2008 at 12:59 am 12

    Chinese restaurants are pretty much the only ones open on Christmas

    Fa-ra-ra-ra-ra, ra-ra, ra-ra!

    – A Christmas Story

  13. John in Tronna Dec 30th 2008 at 05:54 am 13

    AMC said:

    Or, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Cultural….

    Where does Madonna fit into this?

  14. Rammy M Dec 30th 2008 at 08:49 am 14

    Don’t forget this one
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1uZ_W7atDE
    (”Chinese Food On Christmas”)

    I can say that driving from FL to OH on the 25th, we definitely looked for an exit with a Chinese restaurant (or Japanese)

    So more reading material
    http://www.uscj.org/Koach/koc_5767_tamuz_llehrer.htm

    R

  15. Cidu Bill Dec 30th 2008 at 01:02 pm 15

    “Trendy,” John.

    Seriously, the Kaballah is a form of Jewish Mysticism, and not really mainstream Judaism.

  16. Irene Dec 30th 2008 at 02:20 pm 16

    as an aside— our fammily goes out for Chinese on Christmas Eve. I work for the Church and Christmas Eve Children’s Mass is one I am heavily involved in. No time to cook….

    ….so off to the Buffet! For the record, they are comforatbly busy every year!

  17. Rasheed Dec 30th 2008 at 06:31 pm 17

    There’s always the IHOP (sigh)

    Our family is Muslims & Catholics, sometimes I’ll park it at church with Mom, sometimes I don’t. This year I went, and one of my sisters absolutely refused to consider Chinese this year, and the rest of us were sick of IHOP… so we went to the Waffle House (double sigh)

  18. Chuck Dec 30th 2008 at 11:58 pm 18

    My boyfriend is Jewish.

    Well. He’s agnostic, but he goes through the motions. Is that Cultural?

    (And yes my username is Chuck, but I am a girl. He’s not a gay agnostic Jew.)

    As for the question, he spent Christmas with me, but he left early to light the menorah with his parents and enjoy his mom’s cooking. He didn’t go to temple for Yom Kippur either, so from my sample of 3 (him and his parents) I say equal.

  19. Morris Keesan Dec 31st 2008 at 12:29 am 19

    Catlover, that should be “Reform”, not “Reformed”, and really, it should be “Reform and/or non-observant”.
    But, besides that, I think it’s mostly Reform Jews who are in “Temple” on Yom Kippur. The rest of us are in shul, or in synagogues. Calling a synagogue a “temple” seems to be pretty much a Reform thing, in my experience.

    Rasheed, there’s not always IHOP. Getting a later-than-planned start on our drive up to ski country on December 24, we had a hard time finding somewhere to eat supper on the way, and the one IHOP we tried was closed at around 5 or 6PM (surprisingly, to me, since it’s right next to a mall, where all of the last-minute shoppers should have been).

  20. Cidu Bill Dec 31st 2008 at 09:10 am 20

    Chuck, I’d classify Cultural Jews as outside of the other three categories, since they describe levels of religious observance and a true Cultural Jew doesn’t observe much of anything.

    And for the record, Reform Jews and non-observant Jews are completely different, though many Orthodox and Conservative Jews are reluctant to acknowledge that difference.

    And Morris, I don’t think the shul/temple thing is quite so straightforward: I’ve been part of Conservative congregations where people generally said “shul,” and some where people generally said “temple.” I suspect there might be some generational influence as well: I never remember having heard my grandfather call synagogues anything but “shul,” and I doubt my children have ever said anything but “temple.” “Synagugue,” at least in my experience, never rolls smoothly off anybody tongue — which kind of makes sense, because what’s a Greek word doing there in the first place?

  21. Morris Keesan Jan 1st 2009 at 10:10 am 21

    Yes, but have you ever seen a non-reform congregation with “Temple” in its name? And I think you’d have a hard time finding any Orthodox Jews who refer to their houses of worship as “temples”: the Temple was in Jerusalem, and was destroyed, except for the Western Wall, which is still standing.

    More importantly, does “shul” rhyme with “school” or with “full”. I grew up with one pronunciation, and was surprised when I first heard the other, as an adult. And does the variation depend on where you grew up speaking English, or on where your grandparents grew up speaking Yiddish?

  22. William Lynes Jan 5th 2009 at 11:40 am 22

    Don’t knock me a tea cup.

  23. DPWally Jan 7th 2009 at 03:20 pm 23

    Conservative and Orthodox judaism are theoreticaly waiting for the Temple in Jerusalem to be rebuilt. There’s some variation on whether that will happen after the messiah comes or will pave the way for his coming. (And there’s a small lunatic fringe group that believes the first step in bringing the messiah is to knock down the Al-Aksa mosque, which is on the Temple site. The mideast is a complicated place.)

    Reform judaism formally dropped the desire for a return to the days of a central Temple with a hereditary priesthood and animal sacrifices, the decentralized synagogues with educated rabbis are the religion’s present and its future. So it’s OK to name those synagogues “Temple”, which Conservative or Orthodox don’t do.

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