According to the latest ABC News poll…
Cidu Bill on Nov 3rd 2008
“among whites who call race an important factor, Obama does less well.”
People actually get paid for coming up with this sort of information.
Filed in Barack Obama, Bill Bickel, politics, polls | 29 responses so far
Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^) Nov 3rd 2008 at 04:32 pm 1
Wait, you’re saying Obama isn’t doing well among the racist white demographic? Oh noes! Who knew?
DocBob Nov 3rd 2008 at 05:54 pm 2
@Howabominable
Offense taken.
While I am white, I do not agree with Obama’s political ideas. Does that make me a racist? I would think that the people at the church with a large population of black people in it that I attended would disagree. As would several black people that I work with.
Your stereotype of me is just wrong.
furrykef Nov 3rd 2008 at 05:58 pm 3
uhh, I think you kinda missed the point there, DocBob. Lindsey was talking about the demographic of white voters who choose to be racist, not the demographic of all white voters.
(In linguistic terms, you misunderstood “racist” as a nonrestrictive adjective — i.e., describing all whites — when Lindsey meant it to be restrictive — i.e., excluding non-racist whites. God, I’m such a language nerd.)
- Kef
Cidu Bill Nov 3rd 2008 at 05:58 pm 4
DocBob, saying that racists don’t support Obama ian’t the same thing as saying that everybody who doesn’t support Obama is a racist.
Paul Nov 3rd 2008 at 06:07 pm 5
Just thought I’d note that there are two ways to think race is important. If you think that it’s important to elect the first black president then you also think race is important. Does that make you a racist?
Hockey Baby-Mama Nov 3rd 2008 at 06:09 pm 6
I wonder how much ABC News would pay me to tell them that McCain isn’t doing well with black voters who say that race is an important factor.
Mark in Boston Nov 3rd 2008 at 06:22 pm 7
“Racists disagree with Obama. X disagrees with Obama. Therefore X is a racist.”
If you think that is a valid syllogism, PLEASE go read a book on Logic (or better yet, on Argumentation) BEFORE voting.
As for “whites who call race an important factor”, what does that mean? It could be someone who wants to vote against Obama because of his race, or it could be someone who wants to vote FOR Obama because of his race.
I’ve heard that more often than not the taller candidate is elected President, so maybe here in America heightism trumps racism.
Hockey Baby-Mama Nov 3rd 2008 at 06:50 pm 8
I think that the average nonracist person - of any race - answering that question about race would read a negative connotation into an answer of “yes”, so the poll question is flawed. I would think the average nonracist person would say to themselves, “No, race is not important” even if they were voting for Obama simply because they wanted to elect a black president.
A better question would be, “True or false: I am voting or not voting for a particular candidate primarily because of the color of his/her skin.” People might not answer honestly, but it would be a clearer gauge of the exact question at hand.
Hockey Baby-Mama Nov 3rd 2008 at 06:53 pm 9
Mark - I guess we’ll find out whether racism trumps a combination of heightism/ageism/baldism that would normally be a death knell for a candidate. I’m not sure I really want to know that answer…
Cidu Bill Nov 3rd 2008 at 06:54 pm 10
True, Hockey Baby-Mama, but it would be a clear gauge of n ambiguous. What the pollster is specifically seeking here (and granted it’s a dumb question), and therefore should be asking, is “If you’re white, and you feel that race is an important factor, does this belief make you unlikely to vote for Obama?”
Cidu Bill Nov 3rd 2008 at 07:01 pm 11
Just for the record — and I know this I’m risking the slippery slope of semantics here — I also consider it racist for a white voter to vote for Obama BECAUSE he’s black.
I don’t want — and I don’t believe the country would be well served by — a black president. Or a woman president or Catholic president of a Mormon president or a Jewish president or a Muslim president or a Hispanic president (though I have no problem with the best candidate being any of those things).
Hockey Baby-Mama Nov 3rd 2008 at 07:29 pm 12
CIDU Bill - Yup, the specific question would definitely get rid of any ambiguity regarding that specific question, but it does sound a tad redundant that way (even though it technically isn’t).
As for the semantics - it would be racist for a voter of ANY ethnicity to vote for or against any candidate simply because of that candidate’s ethnicity, whether they are of different or same ethnicities.
BTW… I’m not sure whether I’m more scared of the honest racists or the dishonest, closeted racists who enthusiastically jump on the bandwagon of every crappy, unsubstantiated internet rumor - rather than just admit that they are uncomfortable voting for a black man. My mother gets a boatload of vicious and libellous emails from her friends every single day, which has actually done more toward getting her to vote for Obama than I ever could have hope to accomplish myself!
Cedar Nov 3rd 2008 at 08:51 pm 13
I have heard chatter of the sort of voters folks are talking about–white people who are voting for Obama ONLY because he is a black. I can’t imagine that there are a huge number of voters who are doing this, and I wonder if the ABC news poll was meant to address that very issue.
A different Patrick Nov 3rd 2008 at 10:42 pm 14
In general, I agree that voting for a candidate only because that candidate is black (or any other unimportant demographic property as Bill was listing by example) is not a good reason for casting a vote in that candidate’s favor. However, life is always more subtle than the lines we try to draw. So in all honesty, I would not feel guilty for using that particular factor in making my decision if I honestly had no preference between presidential candidates. If only to help America cross that threshold.
I want such aspects not to be important in any sort of social/political decision making. But for that to be the case, we will actually need to have a black or female or Hispanic or Asian or Jewish or atheist president. I could live with casting my ballot in that direction to help us move forward as a nation.
But I do have a decided preference this year. And race and gender do not play a role.
David B Nov 3rd 2008 at 10:44 pm 15
@furrykef: Wow! Linguistics *and* survey design, two of my three research specializations, all in one post. I do believe that I have now reached nerdvana.
Frank Nov 4th 2008 at 12:08 am 16
David B. You have not reached NERVANA but the farm yard.
The BS is piled high and it would seem no one remembers ANIMAL FARM. I will vote for McCain tomorrow not because
of his race but because Obama’s politics and the Children’s
Crusade - 2008 version.
Winter Wallaby Nov 4th 2008 at 02:30 am 17
I’m voting for Obama tomorrow, but I don’t care at all about his race. I’m voting for him because I’m excited about having our first Muslim President!
OT: Howabominable/Lindsay, I never comment on Comics Curmudgeon, and rarely even read the comments there, but I must compliment you on you excellent Taft/Roosevelt slashfic.
Powers Nov 4th 2008 at 08:11 am 18
I may regret asking this, but what modern event parallels the Children’s Crusade??
Hockey Baby-Mama Nov 4th 2008 at 08:53 am 19
Thanks for asking, Powers, I was wondering the same thing.
Nicole Nov 4th 2008 at 10:22 am 20
OK, we have established that if you don’t agree with Obama that DOES NOT make you a racist.
But back to the original poll. What I do think is says is that most of the white voters who do think race is important (something I don’t actually understand) are in fact racists. Or to put the poll another way, the majority of white people who think race is important are judging Obama less qualified based on his race. That sounds racist to me.
BTW –I agree Bill and everyone else that you voting based on whether someone is black, white, male, female, straight, gay, religous, athiest, tall or short are all stupid reasons to vote for anyone. But I have to admit, the thought of listening to ‘you betcha’ for then next four years sends chills down my spine — but that is not why I am votig for Obama — no really …. you betcha LOL
Mark in Boston Nov 4th 2008 at 12:27 pm 21
I’ve been reading Boswell’s Life of Johnson. Both Boswell and Johnson were conservatives even by the standards of the day. They and their friends have a discussion about how one should treat one’s daughter who has married a man of inferior social standing. The most charitable among them would grudgingly tolerate such a situation; others would cut the daughter off entirely. Boswell expresses the opinion that mankind’s happiness depends on keeping the social classes in their proper places. (N.B. for a woman to marry *above* her station was not nearly so horrible.)
There really was (and perhaps still is in some places) a conviction that some people are inferior to others just by circumstance of birth. “Condescension” was an admirable thing, for instance when a Duke spoke a few kind words to you (taking care not to get too close lest you contaminate him).
To me this goes against everything America stands for. The Declaration of Independence doesn’t feel the need to prove — in fact accepts it as an axiom — that “all men are created equal”. And yet there are people who call themselves Americans who would side with Johnson and Boswell.
Mark in Boston Nov 4th 2008 at 12:38 pm 22
Powers, I’m trying to think of a modern parallel of a boy (or girl) being told by Jesus to organize children into a journey to the Middle East to convert the Muslims to Christianity, but I haven’t seen such a thing in the papers. There was the movie “Marjoe” in the 1970’s about a boy preacher (true story) but Marjoe Gortner did not lead a Crusade. What’s he been up to lately?
Or do both Presidential compaigns look like misorganized children’s crusades each led by a naive deranged kid in over his head?
David Nov 4th 2008 at 12:50 pm 23
A different survey established that there was a large number of people with racist leanings who were going to vote for Obama. Then I found a source that listed the questions that established a person as having “racist leanings”. Pretty much if you ever had a negative thought about a person, and considered their ethnicity in combination with your negative impression, you were a racist. I agree with the revised, clearer survey questions, and would propose this two-parter.
1) Are you a racist?
2) If yes, does that affect how you vote?
The line I’ve used before, and heard someone else use on the radio recently is that there are so many legitimate reasons to dislike people that ethnicity just never comes into it. It’s also a form of laziness, I try to make an effort to learn something about a person’s behavior or opinions that I can then dislike them for.
Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^) Nov 4th 2008 at 01:51 pm 24
@Docbob: I’m sorry, I totally didn’t mean that all white people are racist. I meant “racist people who are white”. I am white too
Howabominable (aka Lindsey ^_^) Nov 4th 2008 at 01:57 pm 25
@Winter Wallaby - Erm, thanks! I was hoping not to ever have to picture that again! =P
Cidu Bill Nov 4th 2008 at 02:02 pm 26
Patrick, I see your point and I agree: I’d feel kind of badly for the white candidate, but that would be a valid erason to vote for his opponant.
Mark in Boston Nov 4th 2008 at 07:00 pm 27
It’s hard not to be a racist of some sort these days. I treat people of other races with more respect simply because they are of a different race and don’t always get respect from people like me. This means that I’m not particularly careful about treating people of my own race with respect, although it doesn’t bother me much to treat my own people disrespectfully. That’s still racism. I guess I’m also a sexist because I let women go through doorways first. (Actually things work out better if you do that. I got into an Alphonse & Gaston “After you, no after YOU” loop with a woman, until I realized that “she” was actually a clueless cross-dressing man. People, please, if you are going to dress up as something, ACT like whatever it is.)
Winter Wallaby Nov 5th 2008 at 01:06 am 28
Sorry, Lindsey, I didn’t mean to bring up bad images. I just wanted to tell you that I liked your story, and the depiction of sexy, sexy, Taft, stuck in his sexy, sexy bathtub, as Teddy Roosevelt rides up on his horse. Mmmmm. . . Taft. . . Yum.
Whoops, sorry again!
Powers Nov 5th 2008 at 09:48 am 29
No response from Frank, I see. Big surprise.